From: Linas Vepstas (linas_at_linas.org)
Date: Wed 12 Nov 2003 - 00:21:04 GMT
On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 03:58:59PM -0800, Chris Wright was heard to remark:
> * Linas Vepstas (linas_at_linas.org) wrote:
> > 
> > Why is the libcap mailing list so quiet? Why does google not find
> > anything interesting for Linux capabilities?  Is this because there
> > is some deep-rooted, fundamental design-flaw or problem with
> > capabilities and/or with thier Linux implementation?   Have the basic 
> > libcap tools been obsoleted by selinux, rsbac or some other security 
> > system?  Or is it simply that "capability" is such a generic term that
> > newcomers don't bother to even invsetigate this technology?   
> > I'm trying to understand why Linux capabilites is such a 'sleepy' topic.
> 
> Linux capabilities is a reasonbly seasoned project, that's reached a
> similarly reasonable maturity state.  There's not a lot of new
> development in the area, as what is done is largely a completion of the
> relevant bits of the withdrawn Posix.1e draft.  
Yeah, well, isn't 'maturity' a synonym for 'almost dead'? 
I don't buy your answer that "its more or less done" since there are
obvious gaping holes, and its not done at all:
-- there are no reasonable man pages for getpcaps,
-- there's also no project web page.  
-- There's no 'howto', 
I can gaurentee there there is no (and will be no) widespread adoption 
by users/sysadmins unless there's a HOWTO, no active mailing list, and 
decent man pages.  
> Notably absent are the
> filesystem capabilities bits, see lkml for the many reasons that this is
> not popular.
investigating ... 
> > Then a specific question:
> > 
> > I started looking at capabilites so that I could remove some capabilities
> > from a process after its been started.  For example: named/bind9: let
> > it start, let it chroot itself into place, then remove choot privledges
> > from it.  I discovered that I can't do that because I don't seem to have
> > setpcap permissions ... appearently because its dangerous to have this.
> > 
> > So the questions are:
> > -- Did I misunderstand something in explaining the above?
> > -- Is it 'fundamentally dangerous' to be able to take away caps from
> >    other processes?  It seems 'safe' to me, or at least no more dangerous
> >    than having a root user who can kill -9 assorted processes ...
> 
> SETPCAP means you can not only lower but raise privs of process other
> than yourself.  It's a dangerious capability to give out.
Well, yes, that was my point. I'm getting the feeling that its implemented 
incorrectly, that there should have been a pair of bits: LOWERPCAP and
RAISEPCAP, instead of SETPCAP.  Seems to me that LOWERPCAP, by allowing 
one process to take away the caps of another, is reasonably safe
and useful.  So I was trying ask if you/other gurus see something flawed
with this line of reasoning.
 
--linas
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