[00:05] pflanze (~chris@129.132.19.124) joined #vserver. [00:13] Hello. [00:13] ccooke (~ccooke@80.1.164.238) joined #vserver. [00:13] Is there much difference between vserver 0.23 / kernel-patch-ctx 17 as offered by debian unstable and version 1.00? [00:14] atari (~atari@213.144.146.89) joined #vserver. [00:14] hi [00:19] is it possible to run a vserver totally independant of the main server when i have a public ip for the vserver? [00:19] i didnt find an answer to that in the doc [00:20] what do you mean by "totally independant" ? [00:20] I don't recommend running the vserver in Debian unstable, get the latest patches, and moan at the package maintainer for not keeping up. [00:20] Bertl_oO: on sys_reboot in a vserver, you could change it to force-kill all the processes in the vserver and destroy the virtual context ;) [00:21] riel: well. i saw something about the ssh thing. i'd like to use a virtual interface eth0:1 which is shown in the vserver as eth0 [00:21] riel: something like that. [00:22] I'm sure vserver will run in "something like that" mode, but I don't know if that is exactly what you're asking for ;) [00:22] riel: i didnt find anything totally usefull in the docu [00:26] before you complain about the Debian maintner, have you, *yourself* contacted him to say that you've been happily testing the 1.0 release for a couple of weeks and that it doesn't appear to break anything, and you think that the unstable package should be moved across? [00:26] the last time I e-mailed him, I got no response. [00:28] reil: yes, sys_reboot should be able to force-destory the context; however that is not a function that is currently available--that functionality needs added to prevent continious fork()ing programs being particularly hard to kill. One way would be to set a flag preventing new processes being created in that $context. And then kill the processes one-by-one [00:28] mugwump: apparently not then [00:29] mugwump: just because you didn't get a reply, don't think that it wasn't read--does everyone on a mailing list reply to your posts just so that you know it's been read? [00:29] :-) [00:30] I've ended up polishing my own Debian package customisation process for internal packages. It's the only way to get results :-) [00:30] I filed a bug report, with a patch the other day and it got classified as WONTFIX because sarge is being release RSN [00:31] Action: sladen goes off to hunt through bugs. for sam's patch [00:32] Action: mugwump hands sladen a piping hot cup of chill out, man [00:36] Action: sladen apologies for being bitchy--yes the only way I got bits of the package cleaned up was to sit down at Debconf3 with opal [00:36] mugwump: I can't find it, can you mail your patch--I might add it to the debian newvserver package anyway [00:37] it was a long time ago, for an old version. It's not really relevant now. [00:37] Are you in contact with the current vserver maintainer? [00:37] debian one that is [00:38] occasionally [00:38] I concure that he's not always responsive [00:39] It's a problem with the whole Debian concept in general IMHO [00:39] Not a *huge* problem, but a problem [00:40] I would become a maintainer ... I mean, I must have made hundreds of packages - RPM, SysV, dpkg - but the red tape is ludicrous [00:40] No-one's made a deb of the util-vserver package have they? [00:41] I would too--but too much hassle (and then I'd get bug reports :-). I just organise things for Debian UK instead [00:41] http://photos.paul.sladen.org/show_collection.php?id=58432 [00:42] Heh, where's that? [00:43] netrose (~john877@24.171.21.47) joined #vserver. [00:44] mugwump: hanging my back window when I was ``testing'' it before the show. Much better than the old big, square signs--it rolls up and goes over my shoulder--nice and easy [00:45] what's needed for your newvserver, just newvserver and newvserver.defaults ? [00:46] Not sure--I'd have to check what the current patches in the package are. I'm still using the original stuff I wrote :-) [00:46] I'm just knocking up a util-vserver package [00:46] ah [00:47] I think I'd rather try to get Enrico to include the debian/ directory in the distribution. Who needs Debian package maintainers, when we're all quite capable of it anyway ;-) [00:47] it'd be better... [00:50] mugwump: all the defines are at the top of the file. Then /if/ the vserver.conf exists it reads that to override stuff; if not it just depends on itself [00:50] (and debootstrap) [00:54] util-vserver should probably require, not just recommends debootstrap IMHO. what do you think? [00:55] suggest: ? [00:55] it's only newvserver that actually needs it--and it prompts you about how to install it if it's not there [00:56] ok, I'll make it a Recommends: rather than suggests (pity there's no Strongly-Recommends: :-)) [00:57] Cool, I just chucked newvserver in the scripts/ directory, and it's been delivered with the package :-) [00:58] k. --I'd grab the one out of the vserver, I've just been through bugs. and noticed a major typo in my script that was overwriting the crontab in the root vserver, rather than the newly-created vserver [00:58] Where's the best newvserver then? [00:58] In the vserver source ? [00:58] Action: mugwump checks your site [01:00] I would have said http://www.paul.sladen.org/vserver/debian/debian-newvserver.sh I'd now recommend the one out of the debian package which is a bug-fixed version that that [01:02] OK I've got the one from vserver-0.23-3 [01:02] is there any where a usefull howto? [01:02] for some definition of useful [01:03] i need informations. the README is emtpy, the FAQ doesnt exist. any proposals? [01:03] http://www.linux-vserver.org/index.php?page=Documentation [01:04] im on that site. but i didnt find anything yet... [01:05] what is unclear? Where to begin? [01:05] atari: that page lists two FAQs--what is it that you're after? [01:05] i have some questions, i didnt find a answer yet. [01:06] atari: if you ask your questions, we maybe able to answer them for you [01:06] well. [01:06] mugwump: is that the script from the debian/ directory in the package? [01:06] is the verserver independant of the main server? [01:08] atari: I'm not sure what you mean. So I'm going to say "yes" [01:08] i saw something as workaround for the ssh server. what exactly is that to pretend? [01:08] newvserver was just in the root dir of the package [01:09] #!/usr/bin/shellmod ?? [01:11] do i have to patch the kernel of the main server and the vserver? [01:11] mugwump: that's Jack's crap. You don't want to be touching/using that newvserver. The one in the debian/ directory is the one that gets installed (the one that on my site is called debian-newvserver.sh) [01:11] whoa, there's lots in there [01:11] atari: there is only one kernel. You have to patch *the* kernel (on the main server) to be able to use vserver [01:13] i would like to run another linux a little bit like in vmware. is that possible with vserver? [01:13] no [01:13] It's more like a *BSD jail [01:14] or an enhanced chroot() [01:14] damn :( thats what im looking for... [01:14] VMware is good software. worth the $200 [01:14] yeah. i was just looking how to explain it. [01:15] mugwump: if you want any machine, use VMware [01:15] s/mugwump:/atari:/ [01:15] atari: if you want a pretty good emulation of a complete machine, use UML [01:15] sladen: the problem is, that i dont have X on that server. and the server is far away. [01:16] UML? [01:16] atari: if you want something for an ISP environment, then vserver is more suitable [01:16] atari: http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ [01:16] sladen: i'll take a look at it. thx. [01:17] atari: and more recently, there's also Xen now [01:18] Are the debian unstable versions ok, or should I compile the just released new versions? [01:18] vserver-1.0.0 [01:18] (of the ctx patch and userspace utils.) [01:18] sladen: do you have a link for xen? [01:19] the ones at http://www.13thfloor.at/vserver/s_release/v1.00/ are what we're encouraging people to use. No doubt the Debian maintainer will update his version in time [01:20] There are two reasons I generally prefer the debian versions: a) if the upstream is missing a signature, b) because the debian usually are already a bit tested. [01:20] atari: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/ [01:20] sladen: thx. [01:20] I'm missing the point (a) so far :) [01:20] sali pflanze :) [01:21] hi atari [01:21] pflanze: yes, for that reason, I'd be happier for the debian package to wait at least a couple of weeks after the release date of 1.00 [01:22] That debian package has loads of good changes that should have been incorporated upstream ... [01:22] mugwump: Jack hasn't taken /anything/ I've mailed him for a long time [01:23] mugwump: I suspect you've had the same experience [01:23] he's a busy man [01:24] ok I guess I'll go with the debian one - since this is for a live server and the first time I'm trying it I don't want to be risky.. [01:25] pflanze: the 1.0.0 patch will work with vserver-0.23 [01:25] *nod*. [01:26] the patch in debian, kernel-patch-ctx-17, is quite out of date. Very few features have been added since that time. [01:26] Action: mugwump cranks up reportbug [01:26] ok thanks. [01:27] Wishlist items - outstanding: 1 report [01:27] 2) #200010: Upstream patch for kernel version 2.4.21 is out [01:27] Action: mugwump sighs [01:30] zcat patch-2.4.22-vs1.00.diff.gz|md5sum [01:30] 26beab1d75b8861537016dc1e0cdc308 [01:31] Are you one of those paranoid people? :-) [01:31] yes. [01:31] and you're relying on md5? Didn't you know it's compression function is flawed? [01:32] Well, since the new vserver homepage is a wiki, there's a nice chance that someone puts links to some trojan there.. [01:32] Action: mugwump looks about nervously, screams "No, it wasn't me!" and jumps out the window [01:33] The compression function? [01:33] yeah, as a part of the digest it compresses input data before feeding it into the main algorithm. RSA published an exploit about 3 years ago [01:33] I've read some ppl argueing that md5 is only secure if the size of the input is compared as well. [01:34] ah. didn't know about that. [01:34] yes that would be right, essentially it's not all that hard to pick a sequence of bytes that doesn't affect the output MD5 sum, especially if you have the input data [01:35] but that sequence of bytes also has to be a valid patch in this case :) [01:36] not a huge problem, you can have huge amounts of comments in a patch [01:37] true [01:38] You know what, I just got that file from Herbert's site and the MD5 sum is differnt [01:39] http://www.13thfloor.at/vserver/s_release/v1.00/patch-2.4.22-vs1.00.diff.gz Is what I fetched [01:39] Herbert runs 13thfloor.at, so assuming his (or your) ISP hasn't been violated it should be OK [01:40] I've zcat'ed it [01:40] oh, duh [01:40] matches :-) [01:40] but that doesn't necessarily mean anything ;-) [01:40] for the case that you fetched the bz2 :) [01:41] I'm looking for a sha cmdline tool right now.. [01:41] ;) [01:41] haven't found one so far [01:41] openssl sha1 zcat patch-2.4.22-vs1.00.diff.gz|openssl sha1 [01:41] 1b7acaec2e5120f6c537d479c9b94b6de5e7c4ac [01:42] This is pointless - we're doing sums of files we both just retrieved from the same site [01:42] If it makes you feel any better, I've scanned over it manually and there are no Trojans :-) [01:42] that I saw ;-) [01:42] The point is that the vserver homepage is a wiki and the download site doesn't have .sig's [01:43] www.13thfloor.at is run by the current project leader [01:43] yeah, just check for unusual comments :) [01:43] hey, what's this patch to syscall 0... [01:44] I didn't know that. But I'll set up www.13thfloor.ch and change the wiki s00n. [01:46] Argentina, Switzerland, same diff [01:46] Nick change: Bertl_oO -> Bertl [01:47] hi all ... heavy discussion about the security of the release? [01:47] My diff will have buffer overfl0ws at the right places. [01:48] @pflanze do you feel better if I add the md5 sums? [01:48] no, we've just been through all that :-) [01:48] signed with my key? [01:48] Hm, where would you want to add them, to the wiki? :^) [01:48] signed, yes. [01:48] zcat patch-2.4.22-vs1.00.diff.gz|openssl sha1 was the suggestion [01:48] nope on my web page (13thfloor.at) [01:49] Well, I'll trust you now :), but maybe that's only because it's you. [01:50] Simon (~sgarner@apollo.quattro.net.nz) joined #vserver. [01:51] Action: mugwump raises a big PGP Keyswapping Time fanfare! [01:52] pub 1024D/05B52F13 2000-12-08 Sam Vilain [01:52] Key fingerprint = 7D74 2A09 B2D3 C30F F78E 278A A425 30A9 05B5 2F13 [01:53] http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x05B52F13 [01:53] Action: mugwump looks around for the enthusiasm [01:53] pub 1024D/1FE692DA 2003-08-13 Christian Jaeger (Work) [01:53] Key fingerprint = F033 D030 F75D E445 05A1 1865 4ECB DF80 1FE6 92DA [01:53] (but well I'm not part of your dev group) [01:53] Action: pflanze is going to sign mugwump's key [01:54] My, what a lot of keys you have pflanze [01:54] ? [01:54] you mean signatures? [01:54] no, on pgp.mit.edu there are about 4 keys of yours [01:55] Assuming they're all the same Christian Jaeger [01:55] hm, there should only be two, the above and an old one. [01:55] prolly not. [01:55] maybe christian.jaeger@studentmail.newcastle.edu.au isn't you then [01:56] right, I've never been there [01:57] http://vilain.net/jaeger.asc is the signed version [01:58] Herb, you got a key? [02:00] not yet, but I was thinking about creating one ... [02:02] 1024bit , DSA/ElGamal is okay, right? [02:02] mugwump: since one should check the email address before signing a key, I'm about to run "cabot"; do you want both your identifications (email adresses) signed? [02:02] (sam@vilain.net + sv@snowcra.sh) [02:03] sure why not [02:03] you'll receive an email with a hash that you should reply to. [02:03] how flash [02:04] `apt-file search cabot' returns nothing - what's that a part of? [02:05] You should find it with google. I think I've fetched it from http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/cabot . [02:05] cool [02:11] okay, just added my newly created key to the MIT server ... [02:12] what's the id/fingerprint? [02:12] 1024D/4B1AE351 [02:12] pub 1024D/4B1AE351 2003-11-02 Herbert Pötzl (Bertl) [02:12] Key fingerprint = 29FB 7F24 15A7 BDDD 3593 467E 0D1B 83CA 4B1A E351 [02:14] Herbert Pötzl I presume [02:15] Only a year for your key Herbert? [02:15] well that is what the sever does with the umlaut o (ö) ;) [02:15] Bertl: I've sent you a challenge too [02:15] so I have to do it again next year, when 2048 bit are in ;) [02:16] I've just signed your key - get the signed version at vilain.net/herb.asc [02:21] Action: sladen raises an E90CFA24 [02:22] (but don't think I'm signing it without seeing ID in person... :-) [02:24] My, what a lot of signatures you have Paul [02:24] well that's a point I'm unsure myself. Do people expect to match the key to a real name, or to an email address? [02:24] the idea is, a person [02:24] If it's only for the email address, I'm verifying it. [02:25] The person's real name is a different thing. [02:26] Action: sladen checks. Ah, I see your point. #263 in the world... [02:26] I guess Bertl and mugwump at least deserve a "2". [02:26] It's a web of trust, not a web of paranoia ;-) [02:26] (well, mugwump as soon as I get the replies) [02:27] Yeah, I only pick up mail at work [02:27] seems a bit backwards, but there you go [02:28] pflanze: I generally reserve 3 for very-good-ID and knowing the person, 2 for okay-ish ID. 1 for anything else [02:30] pflanze: *grin* [02:30] With both an official ID (car or passport) and with email verified, I'm giving a 3. [02:30] Even if I don't know the person. [02:30] a lot of trust you place in the establishment then [02:31] You'll never know your next as good as yourself. [02:32] (I mean, with an official ID that I've seen with the real person beneath.) [02:35] sladen: what's #263? [02:36] pf: http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/ka/2003-10-19/top1000table.html.gz [02:39] Peter Palfrader is #3 and #36 :-) [02:41] (btw Bertl should have received the signed key) [02:42] netrose (~john877@24.171.21.47) left irc: Ping timeout: 485 seconds [02:42] Where are you based Paul? [02:44] Nottingham. [02:44] (and Thanks for you sig, Sam.) [02:44] your [02:45] damnit, how the fsck did Moray get to #29 so quickly...?! [02:46] all his sigs are dated 2003! [02:51] MasterLee (~MasterLee@adsl-67-67-197-85.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) joined #vserver. [02:51] hello. [02:52] hello [02:52] Action: sladen beds [02:53] Late there? [03:03] hi! [03:06] @MasterLee what brings you here? [03:22] morning [03:22] hi! [03:22] herbert, today is the day for sparc testing! :) [03:22] wow ... means in 5 minutes, or 5 hours? [03:22] congrats on the 1.0 release too :) [03:23] heheh, i'll try for half an hour [03:23] this machine is sloooooooooooooooow [03:23] okay, I'll be around some time ... [03:23] so, the 1.1 stream will be the new syscall switch ? [03:23] yup 1.1.0 is syscall ... [03:25] vinsci (~vinsci@dsl-jklgw3if1.dial.inet.fi) joined #vserver. [03:25] hi vinsci! [03:26] hi Bertl :) [03:30] how does vserver differ from, say, xen? [03:31] xen? [03:31] in many ways ... [03:31] xen does some partitioning of the available resources for different oses [03:31] kestrel http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/ [03:31] thanks [03:32] for example, you can dedicate 200MB of disk space some ram and cpu time for a linux kernel/install ... [03:32] this will allow you to run a 'modified' version of linux on those resources ... [03:33] 5 servers means 5 kernel and 5 times the disk space ... [03:33] interesting [03:33] vserver will let you run the 5 servers with about 50MB each, 150MB shared amongh them ... on one kernel ... [03:34] this reduces the amount of resources spend on the kernel ... [03:35] so where xen will be able to run different kernels (like uml does), you get all the advantages and disadvantages this approach brings ... [03:36] k, thanks [03:37] anyone running vserver in production use, facing the net? [03:37] several people do ... [03:37] the linux-vserver.org for example is one ... [03:38] www.13thfloor.at another ;) [03:38] the .org name space is getting crowded ;-) http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ [03:39] yeah, probably we should link to each other, as the projects are orthogonal ... [03:39] yes [03:41] there's a lot of "OLD" and "NEVER" (shouldn't that be NEWER?) in this "one big html document" http://dns.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc?dp=0&full=1&prjstate=1&nodoc=0 [03:42] hopefully someone will update this valuable information ... [03:42] 12http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/01 << this is why I think we should have picked a totally new name for the vserver project ;) [03:45] considered using Plone for your new website? (shameless plug) [03:45] actually somebody already volunteered to setup plone .. but haven't heard since ;) [03:46] I could do that in 15 minutes, if you like :) [03:46] well, I'm not sure that we would benefit from it ... [03:46] I'm currently working fulltime with plone and plone development [03:47] but if you want to convince me, it is easily done with good arguments *hint* [03:55] @vinsci are you interested in maintaining a plone setup for linux-vserver.org? [03:59] still compiling herbert... [04:00] I guess the main benefit of plone is that responsibility can be safely delegated - all aspects of the site can be managed remotely through a web browser so each contributor can work fast and efficiently. If something is wrong, it has full version management so changes to contents can be easily undone [04:01] but there are so many more things it doesn't make much sense trying to list them [04:01] okay, again my question: are you interested in maintaining a plone setup for linux-vserver.org? [04:03] just keeping the software up and maintaining upgrades, is a relatively easy job, so yes I could do that. I wouldn't do the content (as I know next to nothing about the project) [04:03] Running and adding content is incredibly easy though, so project members will do it in no times themselves [04:04] I assume very similar to the current wiki, right? [04:04] well, plone has a wiki feature, so you can add wikis anywhere on the site structure you like [04:05] maybe you could explain how plone would be used best for this project ... and name some advantages over the current solution ... [04:06] we're just about to release plone 2 beta 4 tomorrow. It's rebuilt hourly from cvs and up for test use on test.plone.org. It would make sense to use that version in setting up a new site. [04:07] let's go for a test drive on test.plone.org... log in as reviewer/reviewer [04:08] okay, I'm in ... [04:09] the only thing I recognize is the Plone logo/writing ... ;) [04:09] hmm, this cvs plone build sucks on mozilla [04:09] the font is somewhat unreadable and I don't know the icons ... what now? [04:10] I'm sure the stylesheet can be replaced, so no big deal ;) [04:10] yes, someone just checked in changes to that [04:12] haven't found yet how to add stuff? [04:12] ok, let's go somewhere where the reviewer account can add contents on the default site, the reviewer home page looks like a good place, so on the bar at the top click on "my folder" [04:12] OH MY GOD! [04:13] just clicked on Members, now my page is garbage ... [04:13] ah, the hourly cvs CSS is obviously in poor shape [04:14] like to see some screenshot? [04:14] you on linux, I guess? [04:14] I have the same here [04:14] would I use something else? [04:15] hopefully not :) [04:16] oh well, if we ignore the garbled bit (which wasn't there a couple of hours back) [04:16] addign new content: in the green bar, click on "add new item" [04:16] a popup menu shows, where you select the content you want [04:17] choose a document, for example [04:17] okay that doesn't convince me, but it doesn't discourage me either ... are you willing to setup/adapt this for our purpose? [04:17] that would be fun - I need to learn about your project anyway [04:18] what hardware resources is the site running on? [04:19] this is a celeron 550 Mhz ... running about 12 vservers ... [04:19] memory and disk? [04:19] 512MB total, about 36GB disk space [04:22] okay, send me you public ssh key ... I'll add you to the authorized keys ... [04:23] k, can do that, but I'm a bit worried about the hardware [04:23] why? [04:24] is plone such a memory/cpu hog? [04:24] mostly cpu speed - plone does many wonderful things, but it's using a lot of cpu to achieve that [04:25] hmm, then maybe the ultra-fast tavi is a better solution ;) [04:25] a useful setup will include a http cache in front of it (squid or whatever) [04:25] that's not a problem, of course [04:26] the main problem would be response time when going to uncached pages/content [04:26] probably in the 1-2 second region, which can be a bit stressful [04:27] anyway, let's continue the test drive [04:27] scribble aomthing into the short name field [04:27] you already lost me on the garbled members page :( [04:28] ok -- it turns out the problem is that the main page contents is shown on top of the left column at the moment :) [04:28] serving (~serving@213.186.190.24) left irc: Ping timeout: 493 seconds [04:30] fine what should I do now? [04:30] I just reloaded the start page ... [04:30] you're on the new document page? [04:31] how do I get to the new document page? [04:31] from the user bar at the top, click on "my folder", then on the green bar "add new item" select "document" in the drop-down menu [04:33] hmm, now something orange garbled in ... [04:34] good, now fill in something in the three fields (doesn't matter much for this demo) [04:34] four fields [04:34] the "short name" becomes part of the url for the document [04:35] netrose (~john877@24.171.21.47) joined #vserver. [04:36] Bertl: finally click save [04:36] I did that .. [04:36] so what do I do now with this text? [04:37] ok, that is step one fir publishing a new document [04:37] you'll see now that is says "state: visible" on the right hand of the green bar [04:38] click on that and select "advanced" [04:38] normally one would just go "publish" but I want to show some more [04:39] how do I specify layout issues (lists, emphasis, monospace ...)? [04:40] if you like, you can just select html as the type of content, when you enter the text [04:40] but for simple text formatting, STX or structured text is much faster [04:40] let me find a quick ref [04:41] http://plone.org/documentation/book/10 [04:43] ok, the plone guys did a quick fix of test.plnoe.org jsut for you :) [04:44] hmm, nice, now I can actually read it ;) [04:44] still compiling [04:44] yes, that helps :) [04:44] dumb de dumb [04:44] but the performance is dog-slow ... [04:45] it takes about 10-15 seconds until the almost empty page shows up .... [04:45] still compiling the kernel kestrel? [04:45] yep :\ [04:45] @kestrel what kernel are you actually compiling, the v1.00? [04:45] ultra-10 power [04:46] what machine is that on? takes me about 3-4 minutes to compile here ;) [04:46] finished the kernel proper, now i'm on to the modules [04:46] sparc ultra-10 [04:46] ooh ok [04:46] 330MHz of LOVE! YEAH BABY! [04:46] heh [04:46] piece of shit [04:46] well I would let Simon compile your kernel, the download would be faster ;) [04:47] ouch ;) [04:47] hehehe :) [04:47] true [04:47] so true [04:49] okay vinsci, I'm not convinced regarding the usefullness/value of plone for linux-vserver ... but I'm not the one to decide this, the community will do that ... [04:50] but anyways, if you are interested in setting this up, and/or want to help with the site, you are welcome ... [04:51] perhaps this could be use to solve the lack of cpu http://plone.org/newsitems/News_Item.2003-10-23.0217 [04:53] i.e. free plone hosting on http://www.objectis.org/ [04:54] hmm, how would this integrate with linux-vserver.org? [04:54] let me check the faq [05:16] jks (~jks@0x503e4c12.arcnxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) joined #vserver. [05:16] hi jks! [05:16] hi :-) [05:18] so, what's the deal on the new release ? [05:19] Bertl: k, can't find any mention on that now [05:19] well, you get a free release, and we get some feedback? ;) [05:20] Bertl: well, I mean - that's in there the old versions didn't have? [05:20] @vinsci okay, don't worry ... [05:20] Bertl: so for now, I guess don't think too much about that [05:20] Bertl: isn't it going to keep free? [05:21] Action: vinsci returns to work [05:21] @jks I'm going to charge time to the users 8-) (no, don't worry, it will stay free) [05:21] hehe, okay :-) [05:22] Bertl: am I going blind or is the changelog hard to find on the new site? [05:22] @vinsci a last question, would you like to improve the current wiki, if you find some time, and the community doesn't decide for plone? [05:23] @jks hopefully not (blind) but there are no changes yet (and the old changelog c17a-c17h is still under construction ;) [05:24] Ah, okay - so nothing new :-) [05:24] if you know c17f, you've already seen it ... [05:25] Vertl: thanks for asking, but I must say no to that [05:25] are there binary images of redhat for download somewhere to use with this? [05:25] you mean images of the vserver? [05:25] the last time I tried using the script that takes a regular redhat cd-rom, it didn't work very well, and I had to do it all more or less manually [05:25] I mean the files you put into each vserver [05:26] okay, there is/was a list but it isn't up to date IIRC ... [05:27] but in this regard my information is always outdated ... so look around on the website and the mailing list archive ... [05:28] what I usually suggest, is: install a minimal system, put it into the vserver and add what you need ... [05:28]