--- Log opened pon maj 10 00:00:11 2004
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00:32:40< pflanze> g'night
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01:10:47< dvorak> hi all, anyone know about translucent file systems and if they were ever supported in Linux?
01:12:05< Bertl> http://vserver.13thfloor.at/TBVFS/
01:21:21< axu> bye folks
01:21:46< Bertl> cya
01:21:55< axu> oh stop..: bertl: had no luck :) maybe i figure it out sometimes
01:22:12< axu> hope someone else is faster then me ;9
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01:49:11< Napalm> hello all
01:49:39< Bertl> hi Napalm!
01:49:46< Napalm> hows things?
01:50:02< Bertl> good, a new 2.6 release is almost finished
01:50:14< Napalm> will it be a stable release?
01:50:46< Bertl> hehe, no but hopefully the last pre to devel
01:50:55< Napalm> cool
01:51:08< Bertl> wanna test?
01:51:18< Napalm> yea i got a server i can test it on
01:51:50< Napalm> that reminds me i have to do the RH9 install writeup
01:52:28< Napalm> send me a link to the kernel patch and utils, hopefully this will help me get used to the new config layout
01:52:42< Napalm> im right in thinking that theres a file for each setting?
01:52:53< Bertl> okay, give me aminute ...
01:52:59< Bertl> yep
01:53:12< Napalm> ok
01:54:50< Bertl> http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/patch-2.6.6-rc3-bk11-vs1.9.0pre15.diff
01:55:11< Bertl> from kernel org you need
01:55:35< Bertl> linux-2.6.5, patch-2.6.6-rc3, patch-2.6.6-rc3-bk11
01:56:09< Bertl> you can start with 'old'/stable tools (they should work) but to
01:56:20< Bertl> unleash the potential, you'll need the alpha tools
01:56:35< Bertl> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~ensc/util-vserver/alpha/
01:56:45< Bertl> some docu is here:
01:56:48< Bertl> http://www.linux-vserver.org/index.php?page=alpha+util-vserver
02:01:04< Napalm> Bert: how many vservers do you think i can get to a (AMD 1800+ XP, 512Mb RAM, 40GB HDD)
02:01:24< Bertl> single harddisk?
02:01:31< Napalm> yes
02:01:47< Bertl> I'd say about 10, maybe 15 or 20 ...
02:01:54< Napalm> really?
02:02:03< Napalm> the cpu would cope ok?
02:02:17< Bertl> cpu is not such an issue ...
02:02:32< Bertl> you will first suffer increased latency, then I/O stalls ...
02:03:06< Napalm> with v1.27 can you hard set cpu limits on each vserver, i know you have process capacity, but the actual speed so set aside 300MHz for each verver
02:03:44< Bertl> no, that is supported by the 2.6 stuff only, atm
02:03:56< Napalm> so how would you sort out such an inncodent? get a second ethernet card in?
02:04:55< Bertl> and you can't set aside MHz ;)
02:05:24< Bertl> the latency arises from the task switching, which can be improved by dual cpu systems
02:05:55< Bertl> the I/O stalls mainly come from the disk system ... unless your apps are really network bound
02:06:44< Napalm> hmm
02:06:56< Napalm> im thinking of using vservers as general web servers
02:07:07< Napalm> HTTPD, SSH, FTP, MySQL, PHP, Perl
02:07:34< Napalm> ten will sit nice ok u think?
02:07:51< Napalm> 8 would be ok yea?
02:08:00< Bertl> yes, they will, they will not be able to do top performance stuff, but they should be still responsive ...
02:08:48< Bertl> thing is, it is very unlikely that more than 3 vservers will be active at a time
02:09:23< Napalm> active, you mean actually in use?
02:09:40< Bertl> active like in - serving data streams to the www
02:10:01< Napalm> yep that is what i ment
02:10:03< Napalm> ;)
02:13:33< Bertl> and you might hit another limit with the memory, if your services are not very well tuned ...
02:15:46>> Bertl changed the topic of #vserver to: http://linux-vserver.org/ | latest stable 1.27, devel 1.3.9, exp 1.9.0pre15
02:30:49< Doener_> good night!
02:30:58< Bertl> night Doener_ !
02:31:28< Napalm> night Doener
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03:17:03< Napalm> i have to go bert
03:17:14< Bertl> np, cya
03:17:35< Napalm> sorry, will install the ne version on the test server tomoz
03:17:43< Napalm> byee byee
03:17:46< Napalm> night 
03:17:50< Bertl> okay, let me know how it is ..
03:17:54< Napalm> will do
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04:55:04< Bertl> night everyone!
04:55:10>> Bertl is now known as Bertl_zZ
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09:08:55< eyck> soo, now, with addition to QEMU we've got PearPC, right? anyone tried it yet?
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10:07:53< rs> hi
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10:57:30< hiaslboy> anybody having a recent patch available (against 2.6.6 :-) ?
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14:04:26< rs> is one of you get a segfault when using vmstat ?
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14:49:59>> Bertl_zZ is now known as Bertl
14:50:10< Bertl> morning everyone!
14:51:27< eyck> morning
14:52:50< Bertl> hey eyck! 
14:53:33< Apollo> morning Bertl
14:54:02< Apollo> would you consider the 2.6.3 patch stable?
14:54:17< eyck> define 'stable' ;)
14:55:16< Bertl> is the new kernel out, or why is kernel org not reachable?
14:56:01< eyck> ftp.kernel.org is reachable
14:56:07< eyck> http not so much...
14:56:21< Bertl> ah okay ... interesting ...
14:56:45< Bertl> and of course, the finger service is down .-..
14:56:48< kestrel> morning herbert
14:56:59< Bertl> hi alec! hi apollo, btw!
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15:00:00< mlgd> hi
15:00:05< Bertl> hi mlgd!
15:00:15< mlgd> i'm be back
15:01:06< Doener`> hi mlgd
15:01:14< mlgd> i find a good patch for kernel 2.4.25, but kernel crash all time
15:01:44< Bertl> sounds like a very good patch then ;)
15:02:04< mlgd> no i found it on ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kernel-patch-ctx
15:02:17< mlgd> this is a good patch
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15:02:45< Doener`> hmm IIRC I told you about this one ;) 1.27-1 is the one from sid
15:02:55< Bertl> hi matthias!
15:03:16< Doener`> i think ola said something like 'had no time to test it' 
15:05:02< mlgd> my handling :
15:05:09< mlgd> i extract source kernel 2.4.25
15:05:22< mlgd> i patch with kernal-patch-ctx
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15:06:15< mlgd> i copy /boot/config-2.4.25-K7 to /usr/src/linux/
15:06:33< mlgd> i run : make-kpkg --revision=debian.1.0 kernel_image
15:06:48< mlgd> i run : dpkg -i kernel-image-debian.1.0.deb
15:07:08< mlgd> i reboot and choose the new kernel
15:07:11< mlgd> serveur crash
15:07:19< mlgd> an idea ?
15:07:49< Doener`> mlgd: erhm... that patch should be used the debian way...
15:08:11< Doener`> what's your native language?
15:08:17< sladen> mlgd: have you compiled for a arch that you don't have?  (eg, PIII on a PII)
15:08:19< mlgd> french
15:08:29< mlgd> sladen : K7
15:08:42< mlgd> sladen : i have Athlon 1,3GHz
15:09:09< Bertl> *sigh* what does the 'crashing' serveur say?
15:09:14< sladen> what CPU did you select from make menuconfig
15:09:40< mlgd> sladen, i have copied /boot/config-2.4.25-K7
15:10:07< mlgd> sladen, i don't have used make menuconfig, Is it a bad think ?
15:10:40< hiaslboy> Bertl - are you going to release a new patch for 2.6.6 or does 2.6.6-rc3 apply cleanly?
15:10:50< mlgd> bertl : i think that the same message "Kernel panic : no device /dev/console"
15:11:11< mlgd> sorry for my poor english
15:11:32< Bertl> hiaslboy: I'm trying to figure out if 2.6.6 is released, but kernel.org is down :(
15:11:41< Doener`> Bertl: it is released
15:11:54< Doener`> at least ftp.kernel.org says LATEST-IS-2.6.6
15:11:55< Doener`> ;)
15:12:19< Bertl> okay, give me a few minutes to check the patch ...
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15:12:46< Bertl> btw, sladen yesterday your server was down, right?
15:13:35< Doener`> mlgd: please read the man page of make-kpkg, specifically the section for --added_patches
15:13:44< Doener`> and don't apply the patch yourself...
15:14:14< Doener`> just install the clean kernel-source-2.4.25 package and the kernel-patch-ctx package
15:14:27< Doener`> although i still believe that upgrading to 2.4.26 can't be wrong....
15:14:45< _id> re
15:14:51< Bertl> hi _id!
15:15:05< Doener`> wb _id
15:15:11< _id> Hoi Bertl, Doener`, mlgd , sladen ...
15:15:12< mlgd> doener : i apply the patch with the command : patch -p1 < ../patch-2.4.25-vs1.27.diff
15:15:19< mlgd> hi _id
15:15:45< sladen> Bertl: yeah, had a PSU blow at 4am on saturday morning.  Came here yesterday and replaced it and figured I could do the rest remotely
15:16:25< Bertl> ah, okay, good to know, we where worried about your otherwise rock solid server ...
15:16:26< hiaslboy> Bertl: you can get it from ftp.tugraz.at/mirror/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2
15:16:35< mlgd> doener : from /usr/src/linux/ directory
15:16:39< Bertl> hiaslboy: thanks, but I already got it ...
15:17:11< sladen> Bertl: couldn't get anything on the serial when I did get back;  Today I moved the disks to another machine and eventually got things booted.  And now I'm back off to London to pick up a replacement 2U box.  So there'll be /more/ (*sigh*) downtime tomorrow or so when I rsync things across
15:17:33< rs> re
15:17:46< sladen> Bertl: didn't know it was the PSU so I spent several hours building replacement boot-disks from backups.
15:17:53< sladen> not-been-a-good-weekend
15:17:57< Doener`> mlgd: strange... debian kernel source in /usr/src/linux? IIRC the packages place the source in /usr/src/kernel-x.x.xx
15:18:26< Doener`> mlgd: you're not accidently mixing vanilla and debian stuff in an unintended way, are you?
15:18:30< Bertl> hi rs!
15:19:53< mlgd> doener : no i have created a symbolic link
15:22:43< Doener`> mlgd: ok... then now please do as i said and build the package the debian way... have the kernel-source as it is in the package and issue make-kpkg with --added_patches xxx.
15:24:21< Doener`> mlgd: copying the old config from into the tree isn't a bad idea, but remember to name it .config ;)
15:24:43< mlgd> yes, i rename it to .config
15:26:37< Bertl> hiaslboy: the pre15 for rc3-bk11 applies without any issues .. and it should work .. testing now-
15:27:02< Bertl> mcp: any wolk version for 2.6.6 yet?
15:28:14< rs> wow pre15
15:28:25< rs> what's new with it ?
15:28:31< Bertl> rs: and it has experimental RSS limits ;)
15:28:41< rs> exellent
15:28:45< rs> I gonna test it 
15:29:07< rs> I will test the morton NFS fix too for the pdflush issue
15:33:05< Bertl> Linux-VServer Test [V0.07] (C) 2003-2004 H.Poetzl
15:33:05< Bertl> chcontext is working.
15:33:05< Bertl> chbind is working.
15:33:05< Bertl> Linux 2.6.6 i686/0.29.5/0.29.5 [E]
15:33:05< Bertl> ---
15:33:08< Bertl> [001]# succeeded.
15:33:10< Bertl> [011]# succeeded.
15:33:13< Bertl> [031]# succeeded.
15:33:15< Bertl> [101]# succeeded.
15:33:18< Bertl> [102]# succeeded.
15:33:21< Bertl> [201]# succeeded.
15:33:23< Bertl> [202]# succeeded.
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15:38:05< Bertl> hi monrad!
15:42:42 * infowolfe is fighting with xinerama this morning
15:43:06< Bertl> hmm, really?
15:43:11< infowolfe> yah
15:43:33< Bertl> what's the problem?
15:43:36< infowolfe> i'd like to have multi-head without having like the kde/gnome panels spanning the monitors
15:43:58< infowolfe> i'd like to be able to say move this window to another monitor/screen without having a panel/desktop copy there
15:44:14< infowolfe> in fact, having Desktop Desktop1 Desktop2 is starting to piss me off :-p
15:44:28< _id> infowolfe, start 2 seperate x-servers one without a window manager
15:44:41< Bertl> hmm ... IIRC I have separate panels with gnome for each screen (monitor)
15:45:01< hiaslboy> thanks -danke bertl :-)
15:46:17< Bertl> there will be a 2.6.6 release shortly, but basically no difference ...
15:46:19< infowolfe> _id, how can this easily be acchieved via gdm?
15:46:19< infowolfe> lol
15:49:09< infowolfe> the first XF86Config i had... it worked just fine in gnome... (GeForce 4 Ti 4800 SE w/ TwinView IIRC)
15:52:00< _id> i use kdm as my greeter - in /etc/kde3/kdm/Xservers (btw i use Debian)
15:52:06< _id> i added :0 local@tty1 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp -bpp 24 -depth 24 vt7
15:52:06< _id> :1 local@tty2 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp -bpp 16 -depth 16 :1 vt8
15:53:24< infowolfe> umm
15:53:37< infowolfe> do you do dual head?
15:53:48< infowolfe> because all my xservers are running on vt7 right now
15:53:51< _id> nope the second one is for my tv-out
15:53:57< infowolfe> lol
15:54:13< Bertl> _id: how do you 'move' windows?
15:54:37< infowolfe> exactly, how do you drag windows from one screen to another?
15:54:44< _id> i dont move them - on my second X server i only use totem/mplayer
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15:54:58< _id> sorry - i did not read
15:55:03< _id> carefully enough
15:55:37< infowolfe> _id, lol, that'll work great when i get my new TV, perhaps... if swapping from vt7 doesn't bork my vt8 output :-p
15:55:48< infowolfe> s/from/to/
15:56:07< _id> works fine for me
15:56:31< infowolfe> ie, your tv keeps playing even if you're on vt7 doing something?
15:58:36< rs> 2.6.6 was just released btw
15:58:55< Bertl> 15:33 < Bertl> Linux 2.6.6 i686/0.29.5/0.29.5 [E]
15:59:06< Bertl> too late ,;)
15:59:14< rs> too slow :)
15:59:43< Doener`> infowolfe: hmm.. what about just removing the panels from the other screen? only problem i had with that was that it had to be done everytime i started X, since gnome crashed on logout when there was more than one screen...
16:04:28< infowolfe> Doener`, i was looking for something a bit more elegant
16:04:33< infowolfe> since i'm running *3* monitors
16:04:42< _id> infowolfe, my monitor switches off if i use TV-Out (Geforce2MX) - but i have 2 other monitors
16:05:16< _id> on other pc's connected via ssh
16:05:19< infowolfe> lol
16:05:34< infowolfe> i have 3 monitors connected to 1 pc, (and tv-out isn't currently enabled)
16:05:53< _id> hey my GFX card costs 25 bucks
16:06:05< infowolfe> mine was free
16:06:06< infowolfe> lol
16:06:15< infowolfe> (it didn't work correctly with redhat 9 :-p)
16:06:23< infowolfe> i said "let me test it" and it's been in my box ever since
16:06:27< infowolfe> lmfao
16:06:30< _id> =)
16:06:43< infowolfe> it's a buddy of mine that does hardware stuff for a living, so it's no loss for him
16:06:53< infowolfe> mmm, i love samba :-p
16:06:54< infowolfe> lol
16:07:23< Bertl> infowolfe: did I mention that I'm willing to test almost any hardware ;)
16:07:36< infowolfe> /usr/portage/distfiles sharing between machines (with /etc/fstab mounting of /usr/portage/distfiles over samba)
16:07:44< infowolfe> yummy...
16:08:03< infowolfe> Bertl, i wish i could give you a quad-opteron 1U to test... it'd cost about $20k US
16:08:04< infowolfe> lol
16:08:28< Bertl> maybe your friend has one, which doesn't work with gentoo ;)
16:08:41< infowolfe> umm, of course it would work with gentoo
16:08:49< infowolfe> find someone that will buy you one and i'll have him build it :-p
16:08:57< _id> i still wonder that most SMP systems cost more then a cluster of Std PCs
16:09:14< infowolfe> $20k US is with 4 250GB S/ATA drives :-p
16:09:26< Bertl> _id: well basically they don't
16:09:30< infowolfe> _id, well, umm, how much do you know about clustering?
16:09:53< infowolfe> specifically relating to latency
16:10:36< _id> i only installed livelink clusters so far
16:10:44< infowolfe> on a multiquad numa systems, going to another machine's memoryspace (in shared memory situations) over FC is often as expensive as a disk seek
16:10:53< _id> - so not taht much experience
16:11:17< infowolfe> so performance-wise, you'd have to go with something from SGI to get even CLOSE to a single smp system in terms of performance
16:11:31< infowolfe> oh, and getting deeper, i use distccd locally...
16:12:04< infowolfe> which speeds things up by processing on systems other than my desktop (dual athlon mp 2400+ 1.5GB ram)
16:12:10< infowolfe> but most of the cpu load is staying local
16:12:22< Bertl> which basically gives you a factor of 2 right?
16:12:53< infowolfe> well, i compiled xfree86, gnome, kde and all dependencies in about 12 hours
16:13:31< infowolfe> (including mozilla, openoffice, firefox, thunderbird, mplayer, vlc, and a host of other apps that i thought might be useful)
16:13:49< infowolfe> i'm about to recompile kde because i don't think i used the xinerama flag when i compiled it the first time
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16:25:22< Bertl> hi lilo!
16:26:13>> nalfein [~gaertner@212.68.83.129] has joined #vserver
16:26:22< Bertl> hi nalfein!
16:27:12< infowolfe> Bertl, is that a script?
16:27:26< Bertl> no, but I answered that already ;)
16:27:33< infowolfe> you did?
16:27:40< Bertl> several times ... yes ;)
16:29:19< _id> bbl
16:38:35>> click [click@gonnamakeyou.com] has joined #vserver
16:38:54< Bertl> hello click!
16:39:45>> monrad [~monrad@213083190226.sonofon.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:45:35>> eyck [~eyck@62.233.189.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:46:36< click> re
16:46:54< Bertl> how are you?
16:47:20< click> fine, been at too much family-parties lately, I hate those gatherings :/
16:47:28< click> too much coffee, cakes and that stuff
16:48:02< click> and with the coming week, it's the norwegian national day celebration etc etc
16:48:34< click> and birthdays, an anniversary, a work-related party and blah....
16:49:33< Bertl> so, you are going to relax with vserver now?
16:50:44< click> at least I'm going to do some work in general on our boxes - haven't done shit in about a month due to all these gatherings, plus all the darned meetings all over the world :/
16:51:43< click> even thought of quitting my job due to this uber-stressed meeting-activity
16:52:01< click> can't afford to quit though
16:52:19< click> least not now, as I own part of the company :/
16:53:15< click> owners board meeting now this weekend, agaaaain.
16:53:29< Bertl> that's the reason why they made you own a part of the company I guess ;)
16:55:34< click> "hey per, we got a new partner, take the time off and go down and meet them in copenhagen..."
16:55:37< click> and
16:56:32< click> "hey per, we want you to go to wyoming, we need a new colo-site, get in touch with XXX XXXX there and soften our deal up..."
16:57:36< click> in the latest two months I've had 19 flights global, 7 domestics, approx 4 hours sleep each day and stress up to my ears
16:58:04< Bertl> sounds like a real business man then ... ;)
16:58:13< Bertl> (no offense meant!)
16:58:19< click> nah, none taken
16:58:28< click> i just want some SPARE TIME!
16:58:49< Bertl> to develop vserver, I understand that ...
16:59:01< click> met lots of and other things as well
16:59:08< click> oink?
16:59:13< click> *and other things as well
17:01:13< click> met lots of nice people though
17:01:56< infowolfe> click, i wish i could trade you, i'd give anything to get the hell away from the computer for a while :-p
17:02:26< click> infowolfe: don't be so sure. starting a company is stress 24/7
17:02:45< click> i'd rather swap the meetings with time in front of my systems
17:02:57< infowolfe> the grass is always greener...
17:03:18< click> 90% of everything that are said on a meeting are things you've heard 100 times before.
17:04:21< click> all about cashflow, interesting project designs, workload, schematics and solution interpretations
17:05:00< infowolfe> well, if you need anybody in maryland, let me know :-D
17:06:06< infowolfe> or a backup admin... lol
17:06:21< infowolfe> i'm good with gentoo...
17:06:37 * infowolfe trails off and passes out on his keyboard, frying it with his copious amounts of sleepy-time drool
17:07:06< Bertl> *bzzzt*
17:07:11< infowolfe> EEK!
17:07:23< infowolfe> hmmm...
17:07:51 * infowolfe thinks about a way to make xchat's python capability play an annoying sound whenever Bertl does that
17:08:10< Bertl> no passing out at the dawn of 1.9.0 8-)
17:08:34< infowolfe> oh really...
17:08:59< infowolfe> well, when i'm done recompiling qt and a few other things, 1.9.0 will have an oops or 2 for you to handle
17:09:05< infowolfe> (what with that whole alsa bug thing)
17:09:07< rs> Bertl: how to test you partial RSS limit support ?
17:09:20< Bertl> just set a RSS limit for now ;)
17:09:28< infowolfe> but i'll have to wait until nvidia releases new drivers... lol
17:09:49< rs> ok
17:09:53< infowolfe> by then you'll be at 1.9.100
17:09:54< infowolfe> lol
17:10:02< rs> Bertl: in page ?
17:10:06< Bertl> yep
17:16:58< rs> VM: killing process perl
17:17:03< rs> seems to work :)
17:18:45< Bertl> not sure it will work in all situations .. but I guess in most ...
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17:22:52< Bertl> wb eyck!
17:24:11< eyck> I'm back!
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17:51:34< rs> Bertl: what is your feeling about the klogd pb finaly ?
17:51:40>> infowolfe [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ]
17:52:28< Bertl> rs: well, I do not consider it an 'important' vserver issue, as klogd inside a vserver should be disabled ...
17:52:51< rs> yep but when people enable it, it takes many CPU time
17:53:01< rs> and people enable it as experienced
17:53:14< Bertl> when people start /tmp/cpuhog it also takes many CPU time ;)
17:53:24< rs> each time I restart vservers I have to manually kill there klogd :)
17:53:41< rs> yep but in that cas, it's volonteer :)
17:53:43< mlgd> bertl : i test this night
17:53:44< mlgd> bye
17:53:47>> mlgd [~mlgd@194.206.160.208] has left #vserver []
17:54:11< Bertl> for more than a year, changing the service script of syslog to not start a klogd has worked pretty well ..
17:54:48< Bertl> please remind me why this is now different?
17:55:04< rs> I understand that but when people install new things or upgrade there distrib, initial configuration is changed
17:55:21< rs> because now /proc as the hidden feature ? :)
17:55:39< rs> in stable, /proc/kmsg wasn't hiddable, is it ?
17:55:45< Bertl> you do not need to hide it? ;)
17:56:17< rs> hm not really, it just can hold some sensible info
17:56:28< rs> but when not hidden it return an operation not permitted :)
17:56:39< rs> that break some package installation :o)
17:56:50< rs> (syslog-ng under debian for instance)
17:56:51< Bertl> look, I agree this is something which for sure is interesting for providers ... (especially for stealth)
17:57:26< rs> yes it is
17:57:30< Bertl> but there are a dozent of really much more important issues than providing an empty klog to satisfy a broken startup script ...
17:57:57< rs> yes I understand
17:58:25< Bertl> if your 'company' considers this that improtant, I have no problem doing this ... so really np for all of us
17:59:01< rs> np ?
17:59:11< Bertl> no problem
18:00:15< rs> ok, so you're not against the idee, but it's just a problem of priority ? 
18:00:24>> Nesh [~dmistry@su-nat.datapipe.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 69 (Excessive tongue)]
18:01:03< Bertl> yep, exactly ...
18:01:23< Bertl> it has it's part in the 'stealth' branch which isn't even started ;)
18:01:38< rs> hehe :)
18:03:06< hadge> quick question, what are rss limits for us non-developpers?
18:03:09>> Bertl changed the topic of #vserver to: http://linux-vserver.org/ | latest stable 1.27, devel 1.3.9, 1.9.0
18:03:12>> infowolfe [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has joined #vserver
18:03:24< Bertl> hadge: what means non-developers?
18:03:29< rs> 1.9.0 is out ? =)
18:04:12< Bertl> hadge: sorry misread you question, RSS means Resident Set Size, which is the Pages locked in RAM/Memory
18:07:31< Bertl> okay, dinner time, back in 20-30 ...
18:07:37>> Bertl is now known as Bertl_oO
18:07:49< infowolfe> oh Bertl_oO, btw, i got xinerama working correctly
18:24:20>> dionv [~dionv@masq-van7ant.skynet.ca] has joined #vserver
18:24:28>> dionv is now known as dionv_afk
18:29:21>> rs [rs@ice.aspic.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:29:39>> Bertl_oO is now known as Bertl
18:29:56< Bertl> back again ...
18:31:48>> Shotygun [shotgun@shotygun.com] has joined #vserver
18:32:03< Bertl> hi Shotygun!
18:32:18 * Shotygun suspects Bertl is running an evil auto join script.
18:32:30< Shotygun> auto join = on join
18:32:31< Shotygun> =P
18:32:52< Shotygun> How you doing? =)
18:34:24< Bertl> fine ... 1.9.0 is released!
18:39:34>> pflanze [~chris@gate.wyona.com] has joined #vserver
18:39:43< pflanze> hello
18:39:47< Bertl> Shotygun: no, no auto-join script ...
18:39:56< Bertl> hello pflanze!
18:48:06< hadge> Bertl, I guess you just can't be polite and courteous anymore without everyone thinking that it must be the computer doing it :)
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18:48:28< Bertl> hadge: yeah, probably have to change my habits there ...
18:49:45< Bertl> maybe I should setup an on-join script to explain to everyone joining why I'm not greeting him personally ...
18:53:16< hadge> or just an on-join script explaining that you are about to greet them manually and that it won't be an on-join script!
18:53:29< Bertl> hmm, good idea ;)
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18:56:40< hadge> hmm, vmware with a laptop is painful...I want a full 7200 rpm harddrive
18:57:20< Bertl> hmm, use QEMU ;)
19:01:18< hadge> was just reading of qemu...I'm on windows xp though
19:01:52< Bertl> hmm, good time to switch to an OS?
19:02:43< hadge> I know, I've been debating for a while...but just the thought of having to boot up windows everytime I wanted to open one of those crappy Access files always floating around through our clients...
19:03:06< Bertl> ever heard of open office and friends?
19:03:40< hadge> Don't there there are any OS apps that'll read access files.  Everything else yes, but just no access
19:03:59< hadge> likely could get access 2000 running under wine though
19:04:47< hadge> I wonder which distro would be most laptop friendly.
19:05:41< Bertl> everybody will tell you different (accoring to their preference) I for example use Mandrake and it works fine for me ...
19:06:42< hadge> Yeah, I may try out debian unstable...I prefer debian for my servers
19:07:20< Bertl> will probably work fine too, if you know how to tweak your debian installation ;)
19:07:58>> eyck [~eyck@62.233.189.138] has joined #vserver
19:08:10 * pflanze uses debian on a mac powerbook
19:08:15< Doener`> hadge: that one could be of interest to you... http://mdbtools.sourceforge.net/
19:09:13< Bertl> Doener`: thanks, was looking for that, but couldn't remmber the name ...
19:09:25< Doener`> np
19:10:06< hadge> huh, cool, I had never heard of that project
19:10:44< hadge> I think I could get by, with just vmware or qemu for the nastier stuff like running flash MX
19:11:28< Bertl> .oO( we like the moon ;)
19:25:05< infowolfe> hadge, gentoo has wonderful support for all kindsa stuff
19:25:22< infowolfe> in fact, there's even an ebuild for mdbtools
19:25:23< infowolfe> lol
19:25:27< infowolfe> http://www.gentoo.org
19:25:50 * infowolfe apologizes for having to plug gentoo as being the most extensible and customizable distro on the planet
19:25:56< infowolfe> gentoo's perfect for laptops too :-D
19:26:01< infowolfe> lol
19:26:15< infowolfe> Bertl, weren't you just WAITING for that?
19:26:40< infowolfe> hadge, and if you have any problems with gentoo, just give me a holler and i'll give you a hand!
19:26:54< infowolfe> brb, swapping from kde3 to xfce4 (just built xfce4 with xinerama)
19:27:03< infowolfe> oh, hadge /version me before i go
19:27:22< Bertl> infowolfe: thanks for mentioning that ;)
19:27:31< infowolfe> Bertl, which portion?
19:27:42< Bertl> your choice ;)
19:27:46< infowolfe> oooh, did you hear i got Xinerama working correctly?
19:27:56< infowolfe> *3* heads... and xinerama is being WONDERFUL
19:28:01< infowolfe> oooh, yah, brb in xfce4
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19:31:41>> Napalm [~napalm@host81-7-20-232.adsl.v21.co.uk] has joined #vserver
19:31:46< Napalm> hiya everyone
19:31:48< Napalm> :)
19:31:55< Bertl> hi Napalm!
19:32:05< Bertl> (this is not an on-join script)
19:32:16< Napalm> is devfs
19:32:19< Doener`> *g*
19:32:27< Napalm> Bert: is devfs a program?
19:33:14>> yarihm [~yarihm@217-162-206-157.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #vserver
19:37:36< Bertl> Napalm: no, devfs is a virtual fs to get rid of /dev
19:37:47< Bertl> hi yarihm!
19:37:52< Bertl> (this is not an on-join script)
19:38:58>> infowolfe [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has joined #vserver
19:39:22< infowolfe> i'm back and in xfce4
19:39:25< infowolfe> and it's yummy
19:39:46>> taxcollector [~taxcollec@192.16.167.161] has joined #vserver
19:39:56< Bertl> heya taxcollector!
19:40:12< taxcollector> Howdy~
19:40:24< Shotygun> bertl: scrolled up, auto on join scripts are evil =)
19:40:43< infowolfe> Shotygun, notice that he's doing heya instead of hi now?
19:40:48< infowolfe> lol
19:41:09< Shotygun> I'm telling ya, it's a script! He is lying to all of us! =P
19:41:14< Shotygun> And nice to hear about the 1.9 !
19:41:24< infowolfe> hadge, seriously, check out gentoo just as a test... see if you like it, if you do? you'll have the support of a very large community
19:41:39< Bertl> Shotygun: why do you think that I'm a script?
19:41:40< infowolfe> irc.freenode.net/#gentoo isn't as abusive as #debian :-p
19:41:56< infowolfe>  /kick Berl (stop using auto-join scripts)
19:42:00< infowolfe> bertl*
19:42:05< infowolfe> eh, /me needs sleep
19:42:08< Shotygun> infowolfe: I'm idling at hardened-gentoo and keeping myself updated there..
19:42:10< infowolfe> but FIRST, a decent background
19:42:20< infowolfe> Shotygun, xinerama = pimp
19:42:30< infowolfe> especially when used with xfce4
19:42:31< Bertl> dark blue with a shot of green?
19:42:31< infowolfe> lol
19:42:51< infowolfe> Bertl, i was thinking about using a 1280x1024 picture tiled
19:42:58< Shotygun> Somebody give me some IP located in europe that can be tracerouted.
19:43:12< Bertl> use my nameserver
19:43:38< Shotygun> ns1.13thfloor.at ?
19:43:39>> infowolfe_ [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has joined #vserver
19:43:44< Bertl> yep
19:43:46>> infowolfe_ [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ]
19:44:01< infowolfe> i need to write a script to see if xchat is running before launching another one :-p
19:44:01< infowolfe> lol
19:44:55< Shotygun> I actually made one few years ago =P
19:47:50< hiaslboy> nick hiaslboy_oO
19:47:54< Shotygun> The CPU limit feature is quite nice =)
19:47:54>> hiaslboy is now known as hiaslboy_oO
19:48:07< Shotygun> (Reading list, havn't tested yet)
19:48:20< Shotygun> brb
19:49:57< taxcollector> Bertl: The link to 1.9.0 on http://www.13thfloor.at/vserver/d_rel26/overview/  brings you to the wrong place
19:50:25< Bertl> ah, thanks ...
19:51:14< Bertl> should be fixed now ;)
20:05:08>> Apollo [~throwaway@caracal.norcomcable.ca] has quit [Quit: ]
20:10:57>> gilbert [~gilbert@208-186-222-203.nrp4.brv.mn.frontiernet.net] has joined #vserver
20:11:11< gilbert> hey
20:11:13< Bertl> greetings gilbert!
20:11:19< gilbert> anyone
20:11:56< gilbert> understand controling of bleeding ip addresses:ports from server w/ vps server
20:12:55< Bertl> hmm, my ip addresses don't bleed (at least not yet ;)
20:13:03< gilbert> ok
20:14:14< Bertl> .oO( give me a chance to answer, please rephrase )
20:14:30< gilbert> you understood my question i think, cause i really dont know how else to explain things to people sometimes and trying again what i mean is stuff like 'overlapping or two versions of apachhe (httpd) conflicting on port 80/443
20:15:30< Bertl> they won't conflict, if the vps have distinct ip addresses
20:15:57< Bertl> vps1 192.168.0.1, vp2 192.168.0.2 each running apache, no conflict
20:16:07< gilbert> ok
20:16:23< gilbert> well like there usually programmed to do all nodes
20:16:45< gilbert> and my ip for the vserver is on eth0:1
20:17:02< gilbert> does any of that matter
20:17:32< Bertl> I understood: your vps ip is an alias to eth0, but I missed the first part :(
20:18:17< Bertl> well actually I failed to understand it ...
20:18:27>> serving [~serving@213.186.191.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18:45< Bertl> gilbert: try to explain your setup in simple sentences ...
20:19:02< Bertl> then try to explain your issues
20:19:09< Bertl> (or questions)
20:19:22< gilbert> in apache its default (vserver) is set any port and any addresses
20:19:43< gilbert> i went in and changed its networking settings
20:19:44< Bertl> hmm, well any address right, any port, hopefully not
20:20:12>> serving [~serving@213.186.188.187] has joined #vserver
20:20:13< Bertl> okay, you modified the apache config to do what?
20:20:35< gilbert> the networking and addresses
20:20:47< gilbert> to only work on the vservers ip
20:20:57< gilbert> and port 80 and 443
20:20:58< Bertl> you specified explicit ips/ports
20:21:05< gilbert> yesum
20:21:11< Bertl> okay, and?
20:21:25< gilbert> then ;)
20:21:37< gilbert> hold on i got another example
20:22:52< hadge> Ok, I just about crapped myself.  Client just called up to tell me that he had setup frontpage and was ready to begin working, but that he had accidentally deleted his whole site.  Then I went to the tape backup, and the software told me that the last full backup didn't work!  I think I'm going to start looking into some new tape software
20:23:47< Bertl> hadge: amanda? 
20:24:19< hadge> Bertl, nah, commercial, Tapeware, came with the tape drive and was easy to setup for both windows and linux servers...
20:24:50< hadge> amanda sorta scared me too, I was stuck in the "Full on weekends, incremental all week" mentality
20:25:32< Bertl> hadge: ah well, tape backups are not that important - when do you actually need them anyway ;)
20:26:27< hadge> Well, if it weren't for stupid clients....
20:26:45< hadge> And not so bright me not doublechecking all the backups :)
20:27:02< Bertl> did you ever restore something from the backups?
20:28:17>> serving [~serving@213.186.188.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:30:24< gilbert> hey everyone again -sidenote 
20:30:43< gilbert> whats the command to show network interfaces
20:30:57< Bertl> ip link show
20:31:03< gilbert> ok thanx
20:32:32< hadge> Bertl, yeah, the backups were tested regularly, just happened that last week, we switched ISPs and the tape backup software used IP addresses to communicate with the various servers
20:33:07< Bertl> just curious, because I know some $$$ backup solutions, which are one way ;)
20:34:40< taxcollector> Bertl: Aside from O(1) and NPTL, are there any significant changes in 2.6 from 2.4 that you've taken advantage of for 1.9.0?
20:34:44< hadge> I may try bacula, looks nice, and not so big a jump in planning as amanda is
20:36:48< Bertl> taxcollector: NPTL isn't part of the kernel. an advanced memory architecture is, this was also used to allow for some of the memory limits
20:37:09< taxcollector> Oh, OK.
20:37:22< Bertl> a lot of things have improved in 2.6 (at least from the coding point of view)
20:38:01< Bertl> it is simpler to extend and more structured than 2.4 ever will be ...
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20:51:19>> virtuoso [~s0t0na@207ppp11.telegraph.spb.ru] has joined #vserver
20:51:43< Bertl> hi virtuoso! (this is not an on-join script)
20:52:05< virtuoso> Hi Bert
20:52:16< virtuoso> How's it going?
20:53:13< Bertl> fine, 1.9.0 is out!
20:53:13< virtuoso> And I bet it applies right against 2.6.6?
20:53:13< Bertl> accidentially ;)
20:54:39>> infowolfe [~infowolfe@pcp04891550pcs.frnkmd01.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:54:51< Napalm> can a ask a question ber
20:54:53< Napalm> bert
20:55:18< Bertl> I hope so! you may even! (joking)
20:56:08< Napalm> Bert: how do i tell if im running devfs? also what do the prameters to mknod do? like 'mknod /dev/vroot0 b 4 0'
20:56:44< virtuoso> b means a block device
20:56:47< Bertl> you can tell by looking at a) the kmesg out, which should then mention devfs as activated, and b) by looking for a .devfs inside /dev
20:57:06< Bertl> .devfsd actually ...
20:57:18< Napalm> oky
20:57:38>> gilbert [~gilbert@208-186-222-203.nrp4.brv.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ]
20:57:59< Bertl> and mknod can be used to create so called device nodes, for example for block devices as in your example
20:58:05< Napalm> does the mknod 'b 4' stand from b=block 4=block size or 4=hda4
20:58:24< Bertl> device nodes are handles to the kernel's understanding of devices
20:58:37< Napalm> ahh
20:58:45< Napalm> i think i see now
20:58:48< Bertl> they consist of a type (character or block) and a major/minor numbering
20:59:18< Napalm> so that basicly means b4.0 ie block 4.0
20:59:25< Bertl> the major/minor is kind of arbitrary, but usually the same major addresses similar devices
20:59:51< Bertl> 4:0 is the first minor of major 4, for block devices, this is unused, except for the vroot device ;)
21:00:09< virtuoso> Wow, they implemented POSIX mqs.
21:00:10< Napalm> is there any way to find out these details for a hda for instance
21:00:23>> taxcollector [~taxcollec@192.16.167.161] has quit [Quit: ]
21:00:44< Bertl> sure .. there are specific rules for that, and if you use devfs, then they are autogenerated ...
21:01:27< Bertl> hda is the first ide device, so it will be at b 3:0
21:02:23< Bertl> hda1 is the first partition on that device, and it will use b 3:1
21:06:33< Napalm> hmm, so if my / partition is /dev/hda2 and my /boot partition is /dev/hda1 the vroot mknod should be mknode /dev/vroot0 b 3 1
21:06:46< Napalm> or are be making a virtual device as 4:0
21:07:06< Bertl> no, the vroot devices are 4:0 - 4:255
21:07:30< Bertl> you 'assign' the real device to the vroot device via the vrsetup utility
21:08:29< Bertl> and you won't need a vroot device for /boot, and you further shouldn't need one for /, because your vservers should be located on a separate partition ;)
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21:09:18< Napalm> ahh so i because my vservers ar'nt on there own partition then i dont need to use vroot?
21:09:28< Napalm> [root@ns1 vserver-addons]# ./cq-tools-0.06/cqhadd -v -x 50000 /dev/vroot0
21:09:29< Napalm> adding quota hash for /dev/vroot0 ... failed: Invalid argument
21:09:31< Napalm> :(
21:10:02< Bertl> no, because your vserver are not on their own aprtition, your setup is flawed per se, but I can ensure you, most new setups are (flawed that is)
21:10:51< Bertl> what are your intentions, what do you want to have/setup?
21:11:07< Bertl> a) quota on the host?
21:11:14< Bertl> b) disk limits for the vservers?
21:11:26< Bertl> c) per vserver quota for user/group?
21:12:40< Napalm> vservers with quota limits
21:12:45< Napalm> i mean disk limits
21:13:00< Napalm> so i can create vservers with only 1Gb or 2Gb disk space
21:13:15< virtuoso> Probably b then.
21:13:22< Bertl> so, your first task is to move them vservers on a separate partition ... otherwise you will get into devil's kitchen 
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21:14:30< Bertl> infowolfe_: (you are not greeted, because this is no on-join script)
21:15:09< mcp> haha
21:15:09< mcp> ;)
21:15:14< virtuoso> :)
21:15:55< infowolfe_> wtf?
21:16:00< infowolfe_> do i have xchat running twice again?
21:16:04< Bertl> mcp: what is the wolk status?
21:16:06< infowolfe_> damnit, i do!
21:16:09< infowolfe_> sorry
21:16:10< Napalm> Bert: this may sound awful but im not sure how to do that? it came with the the / partition setup with all the space
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21:16:14< mcp> Bertl: ?
21:16:37 * Bertl is eager to port 1.9.0 release to 2.6.6-wok!
21:16:42< mcp> aah
21:16:44< Bertl> wolk even!
21:16:55< mcp> well, nothing yet. I am sure I can't start before next week
21:17:18< mcp> with a chance, this Weekend, but thats unlikely to happen
21:17:25< Bertl> Napalm: read this one: http://www.linux-vserver.org/index.php?page=Remote+Server+Repartitioning
21:17:35< Bertl> (you are not the first one with that issue ;)
21:18:07< Napalm> thanks bert :)
21:18:19< Bertl> Napalm: and complain to 'your' provider, because a linux setup with only one partition is brain-dead!
21:22:12< shuri> lol
21:22:49< shuri> dev/hda1 9612100 2194164 6929664 25% /
21:22:52< shuri> hehe
21:23:00< Bertl> hi shuri!
21:23:04< shuri> hi Bertl
21:23:42< shuri> !!! dentry:c2151480 »net«
21:23:42< shuri> !!! dentry:c2151a80 »if_inet6«
21:23:54< shuri> what mean thoses msg
21:25:10< Bertl> they mean that some programm accessed some proc entries (probably from inside a context)
21:26:08< shuri> i see
21:26:46< Bertl> they will not be issued on vs1.9.0 *hint*
21:27:39< shuri> about bandwithd management
21:27:42< shuri> is it ready
21:27:49< shuri> to get stat from each vserver
21:28:35< Bertl> badwidth as in messages transferred (ipv4/ipv6) via sockets?
21:28:51< shuri> UNIX: 2081/212835 2069/212835 0/0
21:28:51< shuri> INET: 2822/219790 6956/34148705
21:29:13< shuri> for exemple
21:29:18< shuri> RX bytes:2180533643 (2.0 GiB) TX bytes:1403366033 (1.3 GiB)
21:32:47< shuri> anyway will move to 1.9.0
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21:55:31< Napalm> Bert: the swap partition is'nt big enough to carry all the files from the /
21:55:36< Napalm> :'(
21:55:50< Napalm> i feel pathentic not being able to do this
21:57:18< Bertl> hmm, how 'big' is the swap aprtition?
21:57:32< Napalm> well i want to do this on my test server here at home
21:57:46< Napalm> before i commit it to the dedicated box
21:57:57< Napalm> [root@testserver disk]# df
21:57:57< Napalm> Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
21:57:57< Napalm> none                    128236         0    128236   0% /dev/shm
21:58:23< Napalm> 1 sec
21:58:44< Napalm> # [root@testserver disk]# df
21:58:44< Napalm> # Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
21:58:44< Napalm> # /dev/sda2              8127808   4100836   3614104  54% /
21:58:44< Napalm> # /dev/sda1               101089     11200     84670  12% /boot
21:58:44< Napalm> # none                    128236         0    128236   0% /dev/shm
21:58:45< Napalm> # /dev/sda3               505636        13    479518   1% /mnt/disk
21:59:18< Bertl> fine, whre is your swap disk, and how large is it?
21:59:23< Napalm> sda3 is the swap partition that i started doing the tutorial on
22:00:39< Napalm> surely i only need to resize the current sda2 then create a new partition and map it using fstab to /vservers
22:03:02< infowolfe> Napalm, vservers is supposed to be the largest partition (imho) in the system
22:03:26< Napalm> i can do that on the new dedicated box just not on this testing box
22:03:44< Napalm> the dedicated box has a 80Gb Drive
22:03:54< Napalm> this testmachine here only has 8 or 10 Gb
22:05:45< Napalm> Bert: ive un mounted '/dev/sda3'. ive now ive tried swapon -a but its giving swapon: /dev/sda3: Invalid argument will i need to reformat the /dev/sda3 partition?
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22:10:30< infowolfe> yay
22:10:34< infowolfe> xchat tray icon loaded
22:11:26< Bertl> Napalm: yeah, you have to create a swap fs for that partition with mkswap and specify it as swap in the fstab
22:11:56< Napalm> done that now thats working 
22:12:28< Napalm> so how am i going to resize /dev/sda2 so i can make another drive for the vservers
22:12:45< Napalm> would it be best to use the dedicated box straight away
22:13:11< Bertl> no, it's okay to test this on a test amchine first ;)
22:14:21< Napalm> any ideas on what to do next?
22:14:39< Napalm> i appreciate this alot bert
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22:44:30< UFOczek> haa
22:44:33< UFOczek> Bertl: The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is:   2.6.6 
22:45:00< shuri> damit
22:45:01< shuri> :P
22:48:18< Bertl> UFOczek: are you sure?
22:48:35< UFOczek> Bertl: www.kernel.org can't lie
22:48:44< Bertl> and what should we do about it?
22:49:17< UFOczek> Bertl: is patch avaible for 2.6.6 ? ;)
22:49:32< Bertl> well, of course it is! 8-)
22:49:37< UFOczek> omg.
22:49:40< UFOczek> :)
22:52:08< Bertl> and guess what, it's the first devel release too, and it was announced on the ml ;)
23:08:45>> virtuoso [~s0t0na@207ppp11.telegraph.spb.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:14:00< Doener`> re
23:14:06 * Doener` is a little drunken...
23:14:58< shuri> beer beer!
23:16:15< Doener`> beer would've been ok... Obstler (whatever that is called in english...)
23:18:48< shuri> Obstler?
23:20:18< Bertl> fermented apples ...
23:21:33< Bertl> ~30% alc/vol
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23:58:59< Bertl> wb virtuoso! (this is no script!)
--- Log closed wto maj 11 00:00:02 2004